原标题：UniDesignLab专访 | JERDE副总裁Danny Ha：关注用户体验的设计更有价值
Danny出生于韩国首尔，精通英语、韩语，在事务所国际项目上尤为重要，也是洛杉矶设计团队与国际业主之间的沟通桥梁。自2002年加入JERDE以来，他已经在众多项目上施展所长，其设计的项目有：首尔市政府、三星公司和建国大学、MBC、GS E&C、 SK建筑、大宇汽车等。
As an internationally renowned architecture design firm, JERDE has always adhered to a human-oriented design concept. Could you please tell us about your understanding and the corresponding design team work methods?
Danny: 捷得主张 “体验创造不同” ，但体验的类型多种多样，捷得应该如何抉择并创造不同呢？就我个人而言， “不同” 有两层含义。其中一层就是字面上的意思，表示“不一样” ；另一种是更深层次的，即 “是什么造成了这些不同？” 。比如蓝色和红色是不同的，那是什么原因造成了他们不同呢？为什么这些原因能使它们不同？
In JERDE, we always say that experience makes the difference, and there are many different kinds of experiences. Then, how does JERDE look for something different? In my view, the word “difference” has two distinct meanings. On one side, it only refers to our common concept of “something different”. On the other hand, it has more profound significance: What makes “difference”, to be different? For example, red and blue are different, but what makes them different? Why do certain things, make them different?
日本难波公园|Namba Parks © JERDE
On many occasions, architects tend to focus a lot on how a building looks – for instance, the focus on wonderful facades, on great materials, amongst many things. Of course, we always want to achieve something “different”. However, when we put people into consideration, it changes many things – a whole new level of things to consider. It indeed challenges you. What would a space look like when someone walking and experiencing at different time of the day? So, I believe this way of thinking makes a project richer. We always draw sections and imagine what people would experience when they are inside. Would they feel comfortable and excited? If not, then it’s just a nice piece of building.
In my studio, I am currently working with ten people in one design team. We always exchange ideas, and we value this kind of collaboration. It is similar to what we would experience in school – professors and students are closely exchanging ideas and working together. I believe these exchanges make projects more interesting and eventually unique in their own right. For this reason, we call our studio a “collaborative design studio”.
As a designer with a South Korean background, how does this identity help you in your career? Does the South Korean culture or Asian culture bring you some design inspiration? What kind of experience is it like to be a project leader in the Asian market?
My whole family moved to Los Angeles when I was only 17 years old. One of the good things are: at this age, I am already aware of the South Korean culture as well as understand how important this is. Now, I am Korean-American, and this gives me another perspective and sensibility to appreciate different cultures. It provides me with a broader pallet of design tools in the area of cultural projects. I personally think it provides depth to the unique design.
The South Korean culture in general tends to be more of urban setting. Now, however, I sense that the new generation wants to identify themselves in a unique way and willing to express themselves in this manner. I personally enjoy seeing this evolution of the South Korean culture.
首尔Mecenatpolis综合体|Mecenatpolis © JERDE
JERDE have many projects in Korea, and I have always been involved. South Korean clients always invite us to do something more challenging. I believe this is because we have numerous projects in Seoul and they are all very dense – for example, within the distance of two subway stations, we have another project designed by JERDE. When I am in China, it is also the same. Clients always look for a design that is better than Namba Parks. In this competitive global environment, most of the clients are also increasing their expectations and demand more.
In many projects, you are not only the chief designer, but also the chief contact person for many projects. What do you think of these two different identities? What do you think are the advantages of designers with better communication skills?
Danny: 我们通常会说设计师 “身兼数职” 。因为他们可以是设计师，是工程师，也可以是谈判者。作为设计师，我总是在寻找独特的灵感，我的头脑中有太多的创意和想法。但是当我面对客户的时候，该如何以一种愉快的方式向客户阐明这些灵感并获得他们的认可呢？出于这个原因，我们总是依靠图表、绘画、模型等交流工具来帮助客户理解提案。有时候设计是非常主观的，例如人们会说：“我喜欢这个，但我不喜欢那个” 。但是当你理解了设计师想表达的故事，你可能会改变你的想法，会更开放地接受这些想法。
In English, we say people wearing different hats, which means, sometimes you wear the designer's hat, and sometimes you wear builder’s hat. On many occasions, you also wear the negotiator's hat.
Since there are so much in my thinking, as a designer, I always seek for unique inspirations. And, more importantly, how do we present these inspirations in a convincing way to clients?
For this reason, we always rely on communication tools like diagrams, drawings, models, and so forth, to help clients understand our design intent. Sometimes the design can be very subjective. For example, I prefer this one, but I'm not too fond of the other one. However, when you hear someone's compelling story, you are willing to change your mind, and people will be more open to these ideas.
日本北九州滨河走廊| RiverWalk Kitakyushu © JERDE
A good example of this is the Kitakyushu project. We designed a palette consisting of multiple colors which were inspired by different parts of Japan. Among one of them is the color yellow. And yellow color within the design review board was not favored. So we told the clients that it is indeed not a simple yellow color. It is a harvest color. After presented this way, they agreed upon the"yellow" color. I hope this real-life experience answered this question about the importance of designer's communication ability.
Since joining JERDE, you already spend 19 years in JERDE, what is the experience of working in JERDE from your personal opinion?
When I graduated and wanted to find a job, I planned to go to JERDE to get some working experiences (around two years) and then go to another office to experience something different. However, during my time at JERDE, the projects I was working on were getting built. The idea of putting so much energy and passion during the whole design process, and seeing the project being realized and people using and enjoying the spaces are motivating factors that push me to do more and encourage me to dedicate myself to JERDE.
工作时的Danny © JERDE
After 19 years, I am still here, and I am very happy. Of course, commercial architectures are challenging. Majority of our clients are all developers, and their demands could be challenging and many times we turn those constraints into opportunities as we put all of our resources together to collaborate with our clients.
From another point of view, I will say that JERDE gives me numerous opportunities to be able to connect and have conversations with clients – a significant and crucial role for (all) designers.
Does the COVID-19 bring any new ideas or new design concepts to the creation of commercial space?
The COVID-19 clearly affects so many people and communities. Particularly, they impact commercial/public spaces and users are affected the most which is the most important part. And due to the COVID-19, we cannot travel, meet and use those spaces.
For me, one of the most challenging things are that I do not have a clear boundary between working and living condition during the lockdown period. I imagine that due to COVID-19, people miss each other more compared to normal time. Yet, COVID-19 brings us challenges in our tasks, because it motivates us to design new ways of connecting and bringing people together. Hopefully, when the COVID-19 is over, people will engage with each other more than before. For this reason, we should consider COVID-19 as an great opportunity to reconsider the importance of public space.
日本博多运河城|Canal City © JERDE
The COVID-19 has promoted a lot of online consumption and made consumers develop the habit of online shopping. Do you think online shopping will affect the physical business space?
In America, we have Amazon, and in China, we have Taobao. Online shopping is one way to shop, but it can never replace the physical commercial space(s).
From our practice experience, retail functions such as restaurants, cafés and others constituted only 25 per cent of the overall programme. Currently, this number has increased to around 40 per cent for some commercial projects, and this shows the increasing demands of users. For dining experience, we also find that people still want to go out and meet with each other – and that is an integral part of people’s daily life. While online shopping is trendy, people still want to shop in retail stores, and this includes to touch and feel the real products, to talk and share a unique experience with friends. These two modes of shopping provide different kinds of experiences for users.
莫斯科Kashirskaya广场|Kashirskaya Plaza © JERDE
In JERDE’s project, we talked about flexible zones. For instance, instead of creating a wall, we always like to design more of an open format layout. We think it is more creative way to bring people to the project by accommodating various needs of tenants and user oriented spaces. We can’t tell people: ‘don’t buy stuff online’ – they are already used to doing that. Consequently, rather than fighting it, we provide a program that invite people to come and stay longer and come again with their family and friends. Creating inviting and community oriented atmosphere is sometimes more important.
What are the criteria used by JERDE to select employees? What kind of qualities do you want employees to have?
Danny: 会从很多方面来进行考虑，比如我们会选择一个具有5年工作经验的人，但我们也会选择刚毕业的学生。但最终都会问应聘者的一个问题是“你为什么选择捷得？” 如果应聘者对捷得没有自己的了解和认识，我们很难聘用他/她。
We look for people with multi disciplinary backgrounds when we consider. Sometimes we need the type of person who has five years of experience. On other occasions, we look for fresh graduates. In the end, however, we always ask the interviewees for one question: Why JERDE? We are looking for people who cancontinue to carry our legacy projects.
As a design principal, I believe one of the essential elements is to build team spirit. There are many talented students and designers, but if they cannot work with other people, then it does not matter how talented they are. What I am looking for is the interviewees’ ability to work in a team.
另一个关键的素质是“独立思考能力”。如果你在向客户展示图纸的时候只是说: “请看这张美丽的设计图” 是远远不够的。我们希望设计师能讲出每张设计图纸背后的故事，这也是希望设计师能独立思考的原因。沟通并不是一件简单的事情，这其中涵盖了许多方面。但这并不意味着你需要通过一场伟大的演讲或者复杂的图像来呈现你的设计，而是需要严密的逻辑思维能力和清晰流畅的语言表达能力。
Another key quality is ‘independent thinking ability’. If you present to the client and you say, “Please look at this beautiful elevation drawing”,this is not enough. We want to have a story. This is why I want designers to think. Communication skill is not linear. It comprises of many various layers. However, it does not mean that you need to present your work with a great speech or complex images. Logical thinking and be able to present clearly what you have studied is the most valuable tool. Of course, we always welcome to review students’resumes (with qualities i have described above).
设计师手稿 © JERDE
As the chief designer of an international firm, can you give some advice to students in the architectural design major?
Danny:“design” 这个词实际上分为 “de” 和 “sign” 两部分, 这是我在建筑学院学到的第一件事。其中“sign” 是能够直接被看见和理解的东西，这不是我们的工作重点。作为建筑设计师，我们的任务是从不同的角度呈现事物，这是需要创造力的，需要做出一些与众不同的东西。作为一名建筑设计师，应该从骨子里坚持对设计的热爱，这样我们才会在工作中会获得很多乐趣。
The first thing I learned when I was in the architecture school is the word“design” is actually “de-sign”. “Sign”is something you see, and is something you already know, we often don’t think too much about them. As architects, our responsibility is to present something from different perspectives. It is about creativity, and “something different”, should be always in our mind. Design should be something in your DNA, and together with passion, you will have fun in the process of designing.
Another part is about your 'design intent'. I remember when I was in architecture school, my instructor would always ask me: What is your design intent? For me, I think we should always consider peoples' experiences – otherwise, you are only designing a "shell". For example, I see many students designing interesting facades. Please do it, this is not wrong, but, do not forget to think how users will use and benefit from these spaces in-between.
I think without users, architecture is only a sculpture. I always say: When we take care of the people, the people will take care of the projects. I hope students can benefit from this point.